What created the stir I hear yo ask? Or maybe it was just a mumble in the background somewhere. Well, it was the the subject of tithing. I preached about it on Sunday and posted the outline on the blog. That's what created the response.
Tithing always seems to raise the temperature somewhere in Christendom.
Let's get it straight, I don't think that tithing earns you any brownie points with God and I knows it's all too easy to reduce this thing about giving down to a "what's the least I can get away with" theology rather than a joyful expression of outrageous generosity in response to the grace we've experienced from God.
But I still believe there's merit in the tithing principle as a guide to keep us from getting too proud or too miserly.
So what do you do? Do you tithe? If not, why not? How do you "measure", for want of a better word, your giving if you don't tithe? Is it just a matter of what feels right for you?
I don't ask to be difficult but because I'm interested. Anne and I decided to tithe a long time ago and we do it based on our income before any deductions for tax etc. It just seemed logical to us, and we've been comfortable with that. For us it's never been about the money, it's been about a heart-response to God.
But the comment on the church blog, whilst clear about why the church shouldn't teach tithing, offers little help in terms of working out what an appropriate level of giving is except to say:
NT giving principles are: freewill, sacrificial, generous, joyful, not by commandment or percentage and motivated by love for God and lost souls.
All of which I endorse, but what am I to say to the person who comes to me asks how they are to work out what to give?
7 comments:
I don't believe in tithing is a requirement. I mean think about it? How much of the world wide population do you think God wants people to begin their giving at 10%, and how much of them do you think God wants people to end their giving there?
Not that i think that logic dictates our spiritual actions but why would preaching tithing make sense if even only 1% of the world should begin or end there? The only type of giving that fits under the new covenant is freewill, spirit-led giving.
The Holy Spirit was put in place to be our tutor. Yeah, the tithe was good at one point when God's people had no direct access or communication with him. But we have a personal relationship with Christ. We should no longer use these shallow rules and regulations when we have direct communication with God.
The people of God need to experience obedience to a living breathing God inside of them rather than a dead law that may or may not be what God wants them to give anyway.
-jared b
You cannot answer a question from God's Word that is not answered in God's Word.
In other words, God's Word does not tell anybody how much to give except the farmers and herdsmen who lived inside Israel.
The nearest text is 2nd Cor 8:12-15 --the equality principle. Many Christians can and should give more than 10% (until it noticeably affects their money balance). Their abundance makes up for the inability to give as much by others. As J. Vernon McGee pointed out in his commentary on Malachi, the problem is that many wealthy Christians stop at 10%.
At the risk of fuelling a debate that's unnecessary...
I agree that the NT principles are focussed on the Spirit of God and freewill etc. And I also agree that too many people probably stop there. I remember the late Alan Redpath once speaking about this at a conference. He made the point that it does not require anymore for a rich person to live than it does a poor person or even a middle income person. As I recall he said, "If a person with £2,000 gives £200, they are tithing. If a person earns £40,000 and gives £4,000 they are tithing too. But which one is being more generous?"
So that leaves me with the question: "How do you know what the Spirit of God has prompted you to give?" I'd love to be so connected with God that I could say definitively all the time that I knew exactly what he wanted me to give, what he wanted me to say, what he wanted me to do, where he wanted me to go. But I'm not that spiritual. I need help, I need guidelines, a framework with which the Spirit can work.
When it comes to deciding what to give, I find the tithing principle works for me. It maintains a healthy pattern and keeps me open to god pointing out a need that I can meet. Just as an example, we did this recently when we saw a need and met by buying something for someone using money we could have spent on a holiday but chose instead to use as God prompted us.
The truth is that the church of God is massively under resourced because Christians who could give don't even give 10% let alone what they could release if only they trusted God.
To suggest that the tithe was some sort of stop gap because God's people didn't have direct access or communication with him is rather close to suggesting that The Holy Spirit wasn't around during OT times.
And are there not plenty of questions for which the Bible doesn't have a direct answer?
Your answers totally ignore the Bible facts I have presented and are purely subjective.
The reason that churches are hurting financially is not because the poeple are not tihing. Rather it is because the pastors have stopped stressing personal evangelism.
Between 1776 and 1870 all churches were growing and nobody was teaching tithing. Think about that. OUr nation has so many unchurched that we need to discover why they are choosing not to attend church and worship. Something much more serious than not tithing is wrong.
Richard,
I am not against setting personal standards and guidelines. That is for you and God to determine together. The word of God is a lamp unto my feet but it doesn't take the steps of life for you. Nor should your standards dictate what others should do as well.
How do people determine where they buy a house, what college to go to, what job to take? As you know, these answers are not written for us. In regards to the subject of tithes and offerings, how do people typically determine their offerings above the tithe? Why are there no guidelines established for that?
You have expressed a legitimate question about figuring how much to give with freewill offerings, but once you hit the 10% mark, don't you face the same question anyways once you have to start figuring out your offerings above the tithe?
- jared b
Okay, let's stop trying to convince each other that one side has got it all right and the other side has got it all wrong. Hopefully in my comments you've seen that I'm not advocating tithing as the be all and end of what is necessary or faithful when it comes to giving. Enough said.
Now, more interesting that that is Russell's point that there is something more seriously wrong with the church than the simple matter of what we give and how work it out. you're right. I couldn't agree more. There is something seriously wrong when (and I'm in the UK) 90% of people don't come near the church yet 75% of the population say they believe in God. There's something wrong when it's been this way for the three decades I've been a Christ follower and the church is still in most places appearing to do exactly the same now as it did then.
You may be right that the issue is personal evangelism. It's certainly a very big factor. As a church minister I know that the only route to growth is through a mobilised church body, but why are they so difficult to mobilise? That's a question for another day. I think there are issues of personal devotional life, corporate church life and an historical withdrawal of Christians from having any real and meaningful relationships with non-Christians.
We don't do personal evangelism because we are too distanced from those around us.
Jared. Yes I face the same question once I hit the 10% mark, but that rather assumes that I tithe in an unthinking way. I don't. I seek God regularly about our giving. In fact I might even go so far as to say I tithe because I feel prompted by the Holy Spirit so to do.
Thanks for dropping by the blog, it's nice to have these conversations. Every blessing in your ministries whatever shape they take.
"We don't do personal evangelism because we are too distanced from those around us.:
Good points. It has been nice conversing with you. May God bless your ministry also.
In Christ's love
Russ Kelly
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